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Click here for Linda Moulton Howe's 2017 Bio.

Part 1: What Happens to Human Minds and Souls When E.T.s Show Up?

© 2016 by Linda Moulton Howe


Are we being toyed with by extraterrestrials? Are there sinister entities
somewhere out there waiting to gain entrance into our minds and hearts and
souls through any means possible? And if so, why? Are we pawns in
a cosmic chess game between the forces of light and darkness?”

- Ray Boeche, Th.D., Theologian, Paranormal
Researcher and Protestant Church Pastor


October 13, 2016 Albuquerque, New Mexico This 2-part transcript with embedded mp3 audio is produced from the October 13, 2016, PHENOMENON Radio broadcast on db-KGRA.


Introduction by Linda Moulton Howe: In January 2010, the U. K.’s Royal Society in London held a conference about the detection of extraterrestrial life and the consequences for science and society. The program’s Overview stated:  “Astronomers are now able to detect planets orbiting stars other than the Sun where life may exist, and humans living this century could see the signatures of extraterrestrial life being detected. Should it turn out that we are not alone in the Universe, it will fundamentally affect how humanity understands itself — and we need to be prepared for the consequences.”

Later in September 2010, physicist Stephen Hawking warned that Earth should not be transmitting radio signals into space to search for E.T.s because Something Unfriendly could find humanity from those signals. But Seth Shostak, head of the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence known as SETI, argues it’s too late to worry because “any alien society that is advanced enough to launch an attack and vaporize an Earth city can easily pick up the broadcasts we’ve been sending into space since the Second World War.”

Now this year of 2016, NASA’s Kepler mission announced that 1,284 new planets have been discovered — including a couple of dozen Earth-like rocky planets.

If there are other Earth’s in the Milky Way and beyond in other galaxies, is this universe teeming with life? If the answer is yes, how many of those life forms have advanced intelligence? What happens to human minds and souls on Earth when other intelligent life is reported in this universe? What happens when Earth governments finally confirm that one or more alien presences have interacted with Earth for centuries pretending to be gods?

After this short break, joining John and me on PHENOMENON Radio to talk about these questions will be: Ray Boeche, Doctorate of Theology and Protestant Church Pastor in Lincoln, Neb.; and Nick Pope, formerly employed by the U. K. Ministry of Defence Secretariat Air Staff 2a  from 1985 to 2006.  During those years, Nick managed the MoD’s  “UFO Desk” from 1991 to 1994. And Nick has co-authored a 2014 book with John Burroughs and Jim Penniston entitled, Encounter in Rendlesham Forest: The Inside Story of the World's Best Documented UFO Incident.


PHENOMENON Radio interview begins with host John Burroughs; investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe; theologian and pastor Ray Boeche; and retired U. K. Ministry of Defence Secretariat Air Staff 2a officer and “UFO Desk” manager Nick Pope.


Are Humans Pawns in A Cosmic Chess Game?

Linda Moulton Howe, Investigative Reporter and Editor
of, Albuquerque, New Mexico.

LINDA: Welcome, Nick and Ray, back to PHENOMENON Radio. It's great to have you here. And as I was posing this question before the break, what happens to human minds and souls on Earth when and if other intelligent life is recorded in this universe? And what happens when Earth governments finally confirm that one or more alien presences have interacted with Earth for centuries pretending to be gods?

Ray, I wanted to go back to a discussion that you and I had a year ago and I wanted to quote for our PHENOMENON Radio audience what you said to me and have you start this discussion that is so important — what happens if something else out there ends up here on Earth in front of us? Here is your quote from a year ago:

“Are we being toyed with by extraterrestrials? Are there sinister entities somewhere out there waiting to gain entrance into our minds and hearts and souls through any means possible? And if so, why? Are we pawns in a cosmic chess game between the forces of light and darkness?”


Ray Boeche, Th.D., Doctorate of Theology
and Protestant Church Pastor in Lincoln, Neb.

RAY: I think that's still the situation we're in now. It's obvious from the evidence that there is something. Is it, as Keel would term it, an “ultraterrestrial?” An interdimensional sort of answer? Is it extraterrestrial? Is it a combination of both? That fundamental question is still not answered completely. We know that there is something which is non-human, which interacts with us on this planet. The idea of an interdimensional or ultraterrestrial explanation does not negate the concept of an extraterrestrial question.

But the one, I think, overriding issue is can we identify in some manner at least what the intent of these things are? And that to me is the biggest question that I would like to see disclosed from governments around the world. Do they have a concept of what the intent is? I think that's really the fundamental question that needs to be answered.

LINDA: When we had on Lyn Buchanan who had done controlled remote viewing (CRV) for the Defense Intelligence Agency in the mid-1980s — the interview with Lyn was also a year ago about the same time you and I did the interview about agendas and what's behind this whole huge phenomena that we have been clearly interacting with on this Earth for a long time.


Why Would Other Intelligences
Want to Destroy Humans?

Lyn Buchanan said that he had a CRV task to remote view “friendlies and unfriendlies.” And he said there are thousands, millions, of different civilizations out there from what they've remote viewed. Some are very friendly to us and want interstellar/intergalactic trade, but that there are some characters that literally want Homo sapiens sapiens annihilated.

Ray, from everything that you have studied as a theologian and somebody who has investigated the RAF Bentwaters-Woodbridge phenomena right from the very beginning back in the mid-1980s, why do you think there would be any intelligence out there that would like to eradicate Homo sapiens sapiens?

RAY: I think if you — and I need to approach it from the viewpoint of a Christian theologian — and with what we know about the Christian foundation of our belief is that there is an eternal, self-existent, God that created everything that exists. That God is not only transcendent — existing outside space and time — but can also, in some mysterious way, be immanent, present, throughout His creation at the same time. And we know if — given that that creator God exists and we can accept the truth of the Bible — we know that humans were created, we know that supernatural beings, spiritual beings, were created. As to extraterrestrial life elsewhere, we just don't know. So to me, that's a possibility that is certainly there. There is nothing in traditional, conventional, classic, historical, Christianity or Christian thought that precludes the existence of life elsewhere.

Now when we go to a spiritual level, we know that according to the Bible, when Lucifer fell, he took a third of the angels of heaven with him. He took a third of these spiritual beings with him, and they do seem intent on the destruction of humankind. In some classical literature, demons refer to humans as "naked apes," and we are looked at as a lower form of life by those fallen spiritual beings. And absolutely, they would like to see us destroyed! As to other physical civilizations out there, I would only assume that there's the same mix of motivations that drive us here on the planet.

But from a spiritual point of view, I think it's a very well-established precept within Christianity that there are malevolent spiritual entities out there that want to interact with us and destroy, if not physically, at least destroy any chance of a relationship we might have with that creator God.


Are Governments Worried About
Something Hostile and Overwhelming?

LINDA: Nick, I wondered — and have thought about this ever since we did an interview together back in 2009 after they closed the UFO desk at the MoD. In one of our interviews, we were talking about U. K.'s former Chief of Defense Staff, Lord Hill-Norton, who said—you were quoting from a documentary film that James Fox had done back in July of 2000 when Lord Hill-Norton was alive, that he had said about RAF Bentwaters:

“There are objects in our atmosphere which are technically miles in advance of anything that we can deploy. That we have no means of stopping them coming here, and that we have no defense against them should they be hostile. I believe governments fear that if they did disclose these facts, people would panic.” There are two things that I'm hoping you can unfold for us now, Nick, and that is: Why would governments stay so secret from World War II about a phenomenon of outer space creatures if they were benign? The very policies of denial and silence imply that something has been discovered that is not friendly.

Secondly, if Lord Hill-Norton, the head of the MoD at the time of RAF Bentwaters-Woodbridge phenomena, is putting the context of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena(UAPs) in something that we have no defense against and that's why governments would not want to tell the public, it strikes me as so strange, Nick, because we were in a war. And we were in a big war, a world war. And we were fighting humans, airplanes, tanks.

What would have showed up back then that would have convinced the head of the MoD, Lord Hill-Norton, that we might be up against something that not only did we have no defense against, but if it were hostile—“hostile” is his word — why wouldn't governments of the world want humble humans to know?

Can you take those two pieces and start unfolding what your 2016 perspective is on intent, agenda? Could we truly be up against something right now that is bigger than any government's ability to deal with?


Nick Pope, formerly employed by the U. K. Ministry of Defence
Secretariat Air Staff 2a  from 1985 to 2006.  During those years,
Nick managed the MoD’s  “UFO Desk” from 1991 to 1994.
Nick co-authored a 2014 book with John Burroughs
and Jim Penniston entitled, Encounter in Rendlesham Forest:
The Inside Story of the World's Best Documented UFO Incident.

NICK: Sure. Let me unpack those two issues then. I'll take them in reverse order. I mean, in relation to Lord Hill-Norton, I knew him quite well. I briefed him on numerous occasions. We discussed this topic many, many times. There's no getting away from the fact that he was a believer in every sense, certainly in extraterrestrial visitation and also in an associated government cover up.

He could only come at this, in a sense, from a defense and national security viewpoint initially. That was his whole background, his would ethos as a professional soldier, as a military man whose career spanned decades, including wartime service and including at the end of his career, service at the highest level. Chief of Defense Staff, as you know, is a UK post which is broadly analogous to the Chair of the Joint Chiefs here in the U.S. And also he went on to chair NATO's military committee. So yes, he would certainly from wartime, second World war onwards, have been familiar with the UFO phenomenon through, for example, the reports of foo fighters in the UK from Royal Air Force pilots, but also it transpired afterwards, of course, from pilots from a number of different nations.

He would have been familiar with the post-World War II UFO sightings during arguably one of the biggest postwar NATO exercises, Operation Mainbrace, and a whole string of other strange incidents.

NATO Operation Mainbrace maneuvers began on September 13, 1952,
in the Denmark and Norway region. That night of September 13-14, 1952,
Lt. Commander Schmidt Jensen and many of his crew on the Danish destroyer
Willemoes, “saw an unidentified object, triangular in shape, which moved at high
speed toward the southeast. The object emitted a bluish glow. Commander Jensen
estimated the speed at over 900 mph.” For more information, see Websites below.
Illustration by

And all that would have informed his opinion. He would have looked at this—I mean, whatever we think about UFOS, whatever we think we're dealing with, he would have looked at the phenomenon through the lens of a professional military officer, and he would say, "Look, better to assume we're dealing with something hostile and prepare for it, you know, psychologically in terms of our mindset, our worldview, as much as any physical preparation. Better to take that attitude than to assume it's all going to be benign sort of space people kind of stuff and then get caught with your pants down if you don't have any contingency."

And that, I guess, leads to the first question. I said I'd take them in reverse order. Why be silent about this? Why the secrecy? Why the silence? Part of it might, as I've discussed before, be related to technology acquisition, the idea that the nation that first acquires this technology, if that's what we're dealing with, is going to be the dominant power on the face of this planet for the foreseeable future. Militarily, politically, economically, and so on. But I want to end these first comments of mine with another possibility which might play to the theme of this particular show. Maybe the reason for the silence and the secrecy is that the powers that be know a truth about this. Not the obvious truths that we talk about that we're being visited.

But a truth too terrible to even comprehend. And I don't know what that truth might be. Maybe we can unpack some of that in the course of this show. But it's an intriguing possibility that there is a truth too terrible to share, and that's the reason for the silence.


Cosmic Chess Game Where
E.T.s Pretend to Be Gods?

Marble sculpture of Zeus, most powerful and immortal of the Greek “gods.”
Zeus wanted to gain total control of the whole universe. So he fought territorial wars
with the Titans, the Giants and the Typhon. Zeus defeated his older fellow Titans,
including Prometheus below, who enraged Zeus by giving lowly, mortal
humans fire for warmth and food.

Anunnaki "god" on right estimated to be 8 to 9 feet tall versus small, genetically manipulated
Homo sapiens sapiens from already-evolving primates on lower left.
Stone carving from Mesopotamia archived in British Museum.

LINDA: Ray, going back to your quote: “Are we pawns in a cosmic chess game between the forces of light and darkness?” Could that be the theater in which the history of our planet has actually been extraterrestrials pretending to be gods before poor evolving Homo sapiens when the truth was the opposite? That it was to manipulate human minds into getting down on human knees to extraterrestrials pretending to be gods.

Now in the 21st century, it feels to me like all of academia, and perhaps religious history, is being tapped, cracked, along those lines that this is a planet in which Homo sapiens consciousness evolved in the presence of extraterrestrial beings who wanted power and who wanted resources and who wanted slaves, and they made whatever they needed and pretended to be gods.

RAY: You know, I think that's absolutely one of two possible overarching paradigms there that you can pick from. Were gods extraterrestrials in disguise as gods? Are there supernatural beings in disguise as extraterrestrials? Those are the two opposing things, and we were unable to answer those with any sort of definitive empirical evidence.

But—but, it certainly does seem—I think Nick touches on something very much in play here. Is the government—well, are the governments of the world reluctant to release this because it could be a truth so terrible that we can't even imagine what that would be?

LINDA: Along those lines, Ray, could you please explain for our PHENOMENON listeners the essence of what I called “the writers” — communicated in those floppy disks? You had the discussions with them in Nebraska. They wanted to communicate with me about the resurrection technology that I was describing in Glimpses: Volume II. We had this communication. But can you go to the heart of what the NSA and the DIA agents told you about the deception? [See: “The Writers” in Maze of Deception.]

RAY: What they described were efforts by the government, and it seems that there were possibly hints that it was as far back as, and maybe based on some of the things, the very strange relationship that Jack Parsons, one of the first people at the JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory), who was—

LINDA: Founder and Director of JPL.

RAY: Yes, and who was an ardent Crowleyite [Aleister Crowley, U. K. occultist] very much into Ceremonial Magic and that sort of thing. And trying in his most infamous effort, that most people are not aware of, which is the so-called “Babylon Working,” trying to manifest a supernatural entity into this world.

But at any rate, the Writers referenced work that was ongoing by the various agencies of the government in attempts to contact and harness abilities from what they referred to as Non-Human Entities (NHEs). They didn't refer to them as extraterrestrial or spiritual, just nonhuman entities. And what they had discovered, and what had disturbed them so greatly was the fact that everything seemed ultimately to become detrimental, evil, harmful, as they delved deeper into their contacts with these NHEs. So they were concerned that the government was being sold a bill of goods by some sort of contact with these creatures that they could develop psychotropic weapons.

Technical weapons, technology that could alter the course or the balance of world power in such a definitive way that we would never have anything to fear again, but yet it all seemed to be a deception. And much more harm came from it ultimately than good.

LINDA: Do you remember that chilling sentence in one of those communications to me that these NHEs are neither benign nor neutral and that I remember the residue I was left from those few months of being able to communicate, that the DIA and the NSA guys were saying, “We are dealing with Non-Human Entities that are pretending to be extraterrestrials on Earth.”

RAY: That was the ultimate gist of it, yes. And that statement you reference there is something that's resonated with me ever since almost 30 years ago now — that they were neither benign nor neutral.

And that is a powerful thing to take in and mull over in relation to what, according to these government intelligence researchers, they had even at that point in time been able to accomplish with the help of these entities.

LINDA: What if the stories from Anunnaki research are true? I'm thinking of Chris Hardy. I'm thinking of Zecharia Sitchin. That these were some kind of beings that I'm assuming are organic — that have gone through not just this solar system, but Zeta Reticuli I and II, and that they are power and territory grabbers, and that they have existed in the true sense of extraterrestrials that maraud and bully their way through the universe. But that on the other side of this picture are the other-dimensions — what is now being described all the time in quantum physics. That the true nature of this universe, as Michael Talbot and other abductees have described, is multiple dimensions. Other dimensions may be why The Writers and the government referred to “nonhuman entities” because the NHEs can move in and out of a dimension and they want something from this dimension.

Perhaps it's the mix of biological E.T.s and other-dimensional entities that want something — which for humans is incomprehensible, even if the truth.

RAY: Absolutely! I'm reminded of one of the other — his name escapes me right now. One of the early pioneering scientists within NASA who was himself an agnostic, but who said — when we talk about the sort of ethereal nature of what we find in quantum physics, his comment was that he would not be surprised if when the scientists and the physicists finally reach the pinnacle of the mountain of knowledge they find a group of theologians already camped there asking what took the scientists so long to arrive at the same conclusion.

Because we do seem to reaching a point where the purely physical leaves too much unanswered. And I think it's quantum physics is that mode of moving into that more numinous area of study from a physical point of view. But yet it is still very much akin to a spiritual situation as well. Probably the best example of where science and religion really come closest together is in the search for ultimate truth, whether it's ultimate truth through the physical universe or ultimate spiritual truth, we're still searching for truth.

And we're approaching a nexus where I think we're going to find that intersection. And that has got to be a matter of great interest and yet great concern for Those In Power.




Theodicy: Why Does God Permit Evil?

RAY: I think you've really nailed the crux of the issue in my mind of evil, spiritual evil. How does that work? The study of why evil exists, the nickel term for that in theology is “theodicy.” Why does God allow evil? If there are — and I believe there are — other dimensions, let me reference from a Christian perspective again. Every time we see references in scripture of spiritual beings, of the divine counsel, of God's angels, His messengers, demonic influences — we're talking of a dimension beyond the physical.

We have that revealed there. Even when you get into the Eastern religions in terms of Hinduism and Buddhism, there is a spiritual realm which is separated from the physical. In a sense much different than the physical gods, the amplified humans of the Greeks and Romans that lived in a finite physical place, yet had very great powers. So we're talking about spiritual entities that aren't benign. They're not neutral. And that a spiritual force for good in many cases does seem to be trying to wake us up to the fact that we're not alone, we have influences that are evil.


Insidious Deceptions by Other Intelligences?

There are influences that would like to enslave us, to capture our minds, capture our hearts. And they work popping in and out in whatever manner they can use at any given time in history to deceive us. This takes us back to the whole principle that Jacques Vallee (French astronomer and author) so masterfully described in his book Passport to Magonia. When we look at the history of these phenomena through the years, much of it is very much culturally relevant at the time. Let's not go back too far. Let's go to the 1897-1898 airship sightings.

What was the cutting edge technology at the time that anyone could imagine? Airships. That's what people saw. Then we got into the mystery airplanes in Sweden. We got into the disk-shaped flying saucers in the 40s and the 50s and the 60s. This seems to be something that wants to deceive us but yet alters its appearance and the manner in which it approaches us in a way that we find just tantalizingly far enough beyond our technological advancements that we don't immediately say, "This is a spiritual deception." We say, "Oh, this is an advanced race." So there's that aspect to it as well.


RAY: I believe so, yeah. If the government is looking, as most governments do, at how to exploit whatever assets there may be with these entities or crafts, whatever technology they could possibly glean from this, they would love to keep it under wraps so that their terrestrial enemies didn't have it and they did. But if it's a spiritual deception, essentially we've got an entirely different set of problems. And from my discussions with the Writers, it was apparent to me as they conveyed it was apparent to them that the government was far more interested in the pragmatic applications of whatever these entities, whomever they were, could give them than they were about the moral and long term temporal consequences of dealing with them.



U. K. Government's Interest in Occult Magic

NICK: I guess in keeping with the theme of this, the truth will set you free, as someone once said. I just want to go back, if I may, though, to a point that Ray made talking about Ceremonial Magic and Crowley because I think this is very interesting and important.

The UK government has had, and particularly the intelligence agencies within government, a longstanding interest in not so much the paranormal, but that's a part of it, but what I would call occult and this idea of magic, particularly dark magic, black magic. Some of this you can see through tracing the history of the Society for Psychical Research. And one can see a number of establishment figures who have been involved with this over the years. It's interesting to trace that official interest, sometimes official, sometimes kind of a bit semi-official. And again, at the back of one's mind is the suspicion that what people are looking for here is, for want of a better phrasing, a way to weaponize this magic, whatever it is we're dealing with.

LINDA: Wasn't this the heart of Hitler and World War II really? That behind everything that was pushing Hitler forward was his obsession with tall blondes that would take over the planet, and behind the scenes they were dealing with the Thule Society and other forces that seemed to be working through magic?

NICK: Well, I'm not an expert on that side of it, I have to say, and I think some parts of the whole Nazi mythos have been overstated, but I know certainly they did look back as far, of course, to the Teutonic Knights and some of the myths and legends of that time. So yeah, I think these are all interesting connections.


What War Plans Do U. K.
and U. S. Have Against E.T.s?

John Burroughs, host of PHENOMENON Radio, receiving
2015 Researcher of the Year Award for FOIA breakthroughs
with the U. K. Ministry of Defence about the MoD's withholding
UAP/UFO files, presented on February 21, 2015, Open Minds
Conference, Fountain Hills, Arizona. John is a retired USAF
Tech Sergeant, who co-authored a 2014 book with retired
USAF Staff Sergeant Jim Penniston and former U. K. MoD
employee Nick Pope entitled, Encounter in Rendlesham Forest:
The Inside Story of the World's Best Documented UFO Incident.

JOHN: Nick, I'd like to go back to the military aspect for a couple minutes, OK? We've been talking, and we've done other shows with you on Project Condign, and Condign says there's an Intelligence out there. [ See: John Burroughs Forced MoD to Admit 18 Classified UFO Files Withheld.]

And the military obviously—well, I'm going to ask you this question, eventually, when I get to my point. But the military—if we're sending messages out to space and trying to reach out for first contact, is what they're implying, first of all, would there not be some kind of plan from the military? Would not the government people that have authorized this have some kind of plane in place if there is first contact? And we had an individual on a couple weeks ago by the name of John Brandenburg, and he said that we're a marginal society, warlike, and that the best we could possibly hope for initially is contact with a civilization like that, like us, warlike, marginal, the more advance. So based on that, and the fact that we are reaching out, and even physicist Stephen Hawking said that we've got to be careful on how we handle this — based on your involvement in government, were there discussions on how we would deal with it if there was some kind of interaction?

And how would we stand up militarily because then I've got another follow up question on the military based on technology?

NICK: Well, I don' think we'd stand up militarily at all. I think it's one of the—I'm always wary of making assumptions about extraterrestrials because it's so anthropocentric, and it almost amuses me, it certainly frustrates me, when people say, “Well, aliens wouldn't do this because…” We don't know. But one of the few legitimate assumptions I think we can make is that if we're being visited, the technology we are dealing with is significantly ahead of our own. And we see in Hollywood sci-fi movies all the time these alien invasion movies, and I've actually worked on a number of them in consultancy and publicity roles, and it always ends the same that we find some kind of fatal flaw in their defense plan, some weakness, and exploit it.

You know, in reality, I don't think we'd stand a chance. So it's, as they say at the end of the movie War Games, “The only winning move is not to play.” It is literally a fight that we couldn't win.

And with that in mind, there is, so far as I am concerned, no single document that has stamped on the top of it anywhere within government, “ALIEN INVASION WAR PLAN.” There are doubtless some other contingency plans, more conventional war plans that could be quickly adapted. But there is not an (official) alien invasion contingency plan (that Nick Pope has seen, but others testify there are such war plans by the U. S. government).


U. K. MoD Project CONDIGN

Page F-4, ANNEX F, Vol. 2, Pages 16-30, Project Condign's “Unidentified Aerial Phenomena
in the UK Air Defence Region: Executive Summary, Scientific & Technical Memorandum -
No. 55/2/00,” DI55, Defence Intelligence Service, Ministry of Defence, December 2000.
The red underline section begins, “The well-reported Rendlesham Forest/Bentwaters
event is an example where it might be postulated that several observers were probably
exposed to UAP radiation for longer than normal UAP sighting periods.”

JOHN: OK. Moving forward on that. Based on Condign and the fact that we need to study this technology to further our technology, what exactly does that mean, Nick? Does that mean we have a treaty with somebody?

The MoD says it's not of defense significance, but we need to study this for advanced weaponry, and it's already come up in this show that we're trying to, you know, take this technology and whichever one of us, whichever country, were to take it and grasp it first would hold, you know, hold dominance over the world. But how could that be if the technology's there, we're aware of it, and does that mean that whatever introduced this technology is working with us? Are they working with us? Did we just find this technology? And why would they let us use this technology if we're all basically all it would be would be to destroy mankind, not further mankind?

NICK: Yeah, I don't think there's any — I'm not a believer in treaties and alien liaison. I don't think that we're being given technology. I think we're trying to guess our way through this. The way I see it, in a sense, is we're trying — and when I say “we,” I'm talking about governments — we are trying to put together some disparate pieces of a cosmic jigsaw, so to speak, to try and see what we're dealing with.

What IS it that we're dealing with? What's the true nature of the phenomenon? What can we learn from it? What can we get out of it, in a sense? We come at it, of course, from our very kind of narrow, human perspective, and it's always, “Can we make a weapon out of this? Can we get some technological advance out of it?” As opposed to, “Can it teach us something more constructive?” But I guess that's the nature of who we humans are.

JOHN: So in essence, what you stated earlier that we would stand no chance against another ET or whatever you want to call it as a society. And you stand by that. So what exactly—and I asked you and we kind of skirted around it.

You said there was no document stamped, you know, “ALIEN INVASION WAR PLANS,” but there had to have been some kind of discussion about what we would do and how we would react from a military standpoint. Am I wrong? There was nothing discussed or looked at or how we would respond if in fact when we send out these messages out into space that if there was some kind of contact or we detected something coming in?

NICK: No. I mean, pretty much all there is on paper is SETI's Declaration of Principles, and that is, as you know, is written very much with the scenario of detecting a radio signal in mind and not direct visitation landing on the White House lawn or anything like that. SETI's Declaration of Principles says little more than if you detect a radio signal, you should verify it with another radio radio observatory, and then as soon as it's verified, make it public.

I mean, pretty much as we saw in the beginning of the movie, Contact. That's actually based on some fairly regular principles. But beyond that scenario, there isn't. There is—some people have done some follow up on that, and we've discussed before, I know, the two Royal Society conferences that I attended in 2010 in the UK, the second of which in particular did go down the road of if we pick up a signal, should we reply? Who should send that reply? What should that reply say? So those questions have been discussed, but not in a governmental forum, in a scientific forum. And all that's been published.

LINDA: Well, Nick, you sent in an email, and the date was May 14, 2012. It's entitled, “Alien Invasion War Plan,” and I think you were sending this as a draft. But it raised for me the issue that if you or others have even been drafting, even if it's not law, it looks from the work that you sent that the only official body having to do with I guess declaring war with hostiles, would be the United Nations, according to your draft.

Pages 1-4 of 2012 draft by Nick Pope after he was hired to write an alien invasion war plan
for a Sony Corp. video game about an alien invasion called Resistance: Burning Skies.

NICK: Well, let me just clarify, and I got into big trouble about this in 2012. But just to say, that's not a government document. That is something that I drew up for Sony in relation to an alien invasion video game that they were bringing out called, Resistance: Burning Skies. And Sony thought that it would be an interesting discussion to have.

Look, people play these sorts of video games, but is there any truth behind it? So they reached out to me, and they said, “Nick, is there a real life alien invasion war plan?” And I said, “No, there isn't.” And they said, “Well, we think it would be fun for the gaming community if drawing on your knowledge of government and military and the way it works, and your UFO experience, you could write one.” And that's what I did. And that piece of paper you have, I think it's a three-page document and a cover note. It is based on genuine declassified Iraq War planning documents. Declassified as part of the British government's Iraq War inquiry. And it splices into that my knowledge about UFOs. But just to clarify, it's not a government document.

I think I stand by it, though. I think that if the worst case scenario happened, and if the president quickly said to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, “I need a plan,” I think we would end up with something pretty much like it.

So I didn't just sit down with a blank sheet of paper and make it up. I mean, it's based on some genuine thinking.

LINDA: In Paragraph 7, “Policy and Law,” the first sentence is, “The legal basis for military action against extraterrestrials would be the authority of the United Nations.” Is that right now on planet Earth the only viable so-called international legal body that could be brought together for a war with E.T.s from outer space?

NICK: It probably is, but I should qualify that again by saying that under national law, I think any individual sovereign nation could on its own unilaterally get into that sort of situation on a self-defense basis. And of course that's exactly the debate that we had about the legality of the war in Iraq without a second UN resolution.


Could Something in Another Dimension
Want to Provoke Humans in This Dimension
to Fire Nukes to Open Up “Travel Holes”
Between Dimensions?

LINDA: Well, one of the things that I have really been wondering this year having to do with the increasing information coming from quantum physicists about other dimensions as being a real characteristic of the universe that we are in. What if the big battle on the bigger box that The Writers were referring to, Ray, is Someone, Something, in one dimension that wants us to go to nuclear war because when we split the atom in atomic bombs or we're dealing with neutrons in hydrogen bombs, we are opening up tears in one or more dimensions that Something uses to get into this dimension? And that fighting against that inspiration of human minds to go to war is an entire other group of intelligences that are doing everything they can to interfere with, interrupt, and stop splitting the atom or doing hydrogen bombs?

RAY: Well, you know, I think it's a great point to speculate on, Linda. I think I want to backtrack with that in mind to something Nick said earlier about when we — our natural inclination is to anthropomorphize human characteristics on aliens. It's also the urge we have to fight when we talk about God because God is not — He's Other, He's Other than the creation, Other than His creatures.

And so when we apply human motivations to nonhuman intelligences, be it malevolent ones, or be it benign ones, be it omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient nonhuman entities or somewhere below that — but yet in a spiritual realm — we run the risk of missing the real point. And there's where it becomes so different. How do we reconcile our limited ability with our finite minds encased in human bodies to grasp something that could be wholly different from us? So it's an extraordinarily difficult thing for us to do. Now to the point of could they?

What are the motivations for these entities to prompt us and deceive us in order to try and bring about our destruction or at least partial destruction? I think we could speculate endlessly, but I don't know that we'd get any closer to a realization of what it is because they are so different than we.

LINDA: I remember the discussion I had with one of the intel agents that I described and put together as Sherman in Glimpses of Other Realities: Vol. II: High Strangeness. This was a discussion from his being inside of MJ-12. He said that he was privy to everything that had been communicated with EBA-1 at Los Alamos National Lab before EBE-1 died of unknown causes on June 18, 1952.

Glimpses of Other Realities, Vol. II: High Strangeness
© 1998
by Linda Moulton Howe. See Earthfiles Shop.

This was one of the grey extraterrestrial biological entity beings that the government called an EBEN. The government has characterized the EBENs as friendly and having helped us versus other greys that are not friendly, are hostile. And in that discussion with him, I asked him questions about reincarnation and other dimensions and the avatars of history. And he said that EBA at Los Alamos that died in 1952 told the Air Force Captain, who could communicate with EBA the best of anybody telepathically, “there really is a devil.” The captain said, “If the EBENs are afraid of something they think of as a devil, then I am really afraid because the EBENs can control everything.”

Government insiders, who have seen this charcoal illustration drawn by a male abductee
after a November 1980 abduction with his wife near Longmont, Colorado, describe this being
as an EBEN, Extraterrestrial Biological Entity. The head is pear-shaped in contrast with other Grey humanoids that have pointed chins and large, black, slanted eyes. Source: An Alien Harvest
© 1989 and December 2014 2nd Edition by Linda Moulton Howe.

RAY: I would reference people to take a look at my paper called, “UFOS: Caught in a Web of Deception,” [ See Websites below for source.] where I address just that kind of thing. We as a culture, particularly in the early part of the 21st century, I think we could take great heed of something the C.S. Lewis had to say 70 years ago when he talked about the Devil having two great goals, seemingly opposed to each other, but with the same result. Either people become so fixated on the Devil that they're paralyzed; or they tend to say he can't exist, and therefore he's able to run rampant.

And I think we make that mistake when we sell short the idea of a spiritual reality and of a spiritual malevolence that's out there. And like I say, that's addressed at length in my paper, “Caught in a Web of Deception.” So I would refer people to that for a greater explanation, but I think that's a very, very real—from my perspective—a very real thing: the existence of spiritual evil. And we've had a conversation not long ago about the number of very bizarre cases I've had to deal with lately of spiritual attacks. Spiritual evil is very real, and we don't want to sell it short.

LINDA: Because you're having to deal with it in your work as a pastor?

RAY: Yes. I have to deal with it on the very pragmatic level of people coming to me with horrendous situations. Physical attacks and that sort of thing. Not merely spiritual imaginings, but actual physical ramifications of this. When you see someone in great distress who's suffering from these things, it drives home the reality in a way that no discussion or no written account can do.

JOHN: With that, we're due our second break.



Continued in Part 2.


Also see:

• 05/28/2016 — UAPs and Alien “Gods" with Tom Delonge.

• 05/27/2016 — Alien Agendas Include Animal Mutilations and Hybrids.

• 04/01/2015 — Update April 1, 2015 - U. K. MoD Delays Once Again Release of 18 Classified UFO Files Admittedly Withheld in FOIA Correspondence with Retired USAF Tech Sgt. John Burroughs.

• 03/13/2015 — Breaking News — This Is Why John Burroughs's Medical Records from RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge 1979-1982 Are “Classified,” According to Christopher C. Green M.D., Ph.D., FAAFS, Wayne State School of Medicine.

• 02/27/2015 — Part 2: Implications of John Burroughs's Full V. A. Medical Coverage from Injury Caused by Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Radiation at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge, Dec. 1980.

• 02/27/2015 — Part 1: Implications of John Burroughs's Full V. A. Medical Coverage from Injury Caused by Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Radiation at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge, Dec. 1980.

• 02/23/2015 — Update with Press Release - John Burroughs Has Received Full V. A. Medical Coverage Due to Injury Caused by Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Radiation at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge in December 1980.

• 10/30/2014 — Updated: USAF Tech Sgt. (Ret.) John Burroughs Has Forced U. K. Ministry of Defence to Admit It Withheld At Least 18 Classified UFO Files


Earthfiles would appreciate hearing from others who have had firsthand encounters with an alien presence on Earth. All requests for anonymity are honored. Please email: [email protected]

More Information:

Please see Linda Moulton Howe's books and DVDs about her investigations of the UFO, E. T., human abductions, animal mutilations and government cover-ups in the Earthfiles Shop.

For further information about unidentified aerial phenomena and telepathic non-humans interacting on Earth, please see the Earthfiles Archive, of which a few are listed below from the nearly 2,500 in-depth reports organized in chronological order from 1999 to 2016 ongoing.

• 09/30/2016 — High Strangeness Encounter in Cedar Rapids, Iowa
• 09/08/2016 — Bizarre, Mysterious Death of Appaloosa Mare in Queensland, Australia
• 08/26/2016 — Part 1: Glowing Yellow UFO Linked to One of Strangest Airliner Crashes in American History
• 08/26/2016 — Part 2: Some FBI Docs About Unidentified Light, But Much Still Sealed 74 Years Later
• 05/28/2016 — UAPs and Alien “Gods”
• 05/27/2016 — Alien Agendas Include Animal Mutilations and Hybrids
• 01/31/2013 — Morphogenetic Fields, Telepathy and Science Set Free
• 12/16/2012 — Part 3: Huge Aerial Triangle and Non-Human Entities in Army's Fort Knox, KY
• 10/06/2012 — Part 1: Earthfiles Viewer Letters About “Angelic Light” Encounters
• 09/06/2011 — Part 1: New Zealand Abductee Describes Alien Pyramids and Symbols, Time Travel and Sound/Color Communication
• 08/02/2011 — Part 1: New Zealand Abductee Talks About Pyramids, Time Travel and Alien Communication
• 07/07/2011 — Earthfiles Viewer Letters About Oltissis
• 12/12/2010 — High Strangeness Reports from Earthfiles Viewers
• 11/02/2010 — Part 2 - Grandson of AEC Scientist Encounters Blond Entities
• 05/26/2010 — Green Beam and White-Haired Non-Humans
• 05/26/2009 — Part 9: High Strangeness Files about EBENs
• 05/13/2009 — Part 8: High Strangeness Files about EBENs
• 06/13/2008 — Part 2: Insights from An Experiencer with Greys and Blond Humanoids
• 01/05/2008 — Part 14: In League With A UFO
• 05/08/2006 — Another Extraordinary EBE Telepathic Upload/Download
• 03/02/2006 — Missing Time Abduction Before Birth
• 01/27/2006 — Part 2: Navy Physicist and USAF Geophysicist Discuss UFOs and ETs
• 12/02/2005 — Abduction by Grey ETs in Huge, Black Triangle
• 08/19/2005 — Strange Aerial Lights, Military Knowledge and Hooded "Insects"
• 07/04/2005 — Part 1: Eyewitness Description of Cattle Mutilated by Reptoids


"UFOs: Caught in a Web of Deception," PDF available:

Majestic-12 Documents:

NATO Operation Mainbrace, September 1952:

PresidentialUFOs by Grant Cameron:

Other Dimensions:

Encounters of the 3rd Kind:


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