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Click here for Linda Moulton Howe's 2017 Bio.

Part 2: What Happens to Human Minds and Souls When E.T.s Show Up?

© 2016 by Linda Moulton Howe


Are we being toyed with by extraterrestrials? Are there sinister entities
somewhere out there waiting to gain entrance into our minds and hearts and
souls through any means possible? And if so, why? Are we pawns in
a cosmic chess game between the forces of light and darkness?”

- Ray Boeche, Th.D., Theologian, Paranormal
Researcher and Protestant Church Pastor


Return to Part 1.


October 13, 2016 Albuquerque, New Mexico This 2-part transcript with embedded mp3 audio is produced from the October 13, 2016, PHENOMENON Radio broadcast on db-KGRA.


JOHN: Ray, I have a question. One of the things that has come up, and it angers — I wouldn't say a large amount of the population, but some of it — is that they claim one of the reasons why—and that's probably what this show's about—is that we're not ready for whatever the truth really is from a religious perspective based on what could come out of all this. Where do we stand as far as that goes, in your opinion, based on your studies into the UFO and the religious end? Would we be capable of dealing with the fact that there is Something Else out there that could be completely different than us, and that they could try to influence us? And how would we deal with that?

RAY: You know, that's an excellent question, John. In 1988, I did a study that was published in the Newfound Symposium proceedings for that year on just that.
I did a survey of a mental health professionals. And not surprisingly, much like Victoria Alexander did in her UFO religious crisis survey, I got a small pool that responded, but I went with the information I had. And essentially, what I discovered then, and what I'm seeing now, are kind of at odds with one another. This study was done prior to my work as and my seminary training as a pastor. The mental health professionals believed that most religious beliefs would be shattered if that were disclosed.

Working in—as a pastor for the last 25 years, I find a practical answer to that that's totally at odds with that conclusion of the psychologists and psychiatrists that I questioned. My view is—and I've had this discussion with numbers of people, literally thousands of people. I serve a congregation of about 3,500 folks right now. Most believers, most Christians, respond that it would not make any difference to them whatsoever. They would not be surprised to find—(clears throat) excuse me—that God had created life elsewhere.

It wouldn't change their view of the nature of God. It wouldn't change their view of who God is as completely as He's revealed himself to us through the pages of scripture, and that it would be interesting, they would be fascinated by it. But in terms of a huge deleterious effect on their day to day life, it just wouldn't have that kind of effect. So I think people—now let me qualify this—now I think people with a strong religious faith, at least with a strong Christian religious faith, would not be particularly disturbed by this.

But, I think people with a complete lack of faith, atheists, might be more disturbed because they don't have that foundational belief in something greater than themselves. An atheist or an agnostic says the material world is all that exists, and therefore I'm limited to this, everything's great, I've got it all down. So to encounter a superior civilization that would be more technologically advanced, that's going to be shattering to that person's world view.

JOHN: This is going to be a two-part question. One towards you, Ray, and one right back at Nick. So based on what you just said, do you believe that as a society, it's starting to teeter more the other way now? But we still have religious beliefs, so that we would accept this openly both from a spiritual and consciousness and from a military end first until proven otherwise?

First Ray, then you, Nick.

RAY: I think you'd find a mixed reaction among people. Like I say, for Christians who are active in their faith, who have a belief and believe that God has revealed himself to us in His nature, I don't think it would have a huge effect on their spiritual beliefs or their religious beliefs. For those who don't — for instance, the diehard humanist who says that man is the beginning and end of all things — I think that could be very problematic because then you have just been knocked down several pegs on the ladder of abilities, and that might be problematic for them.

From a spiritual point of view, I think I don't see a lot of chaos coming from that. And I'll let Nick speak to the military aspect.

JOHN: Right, Nick, do you think that the initial response from the public would be, “What are you going to do to defend us?” Or would they be wanting the military to stand down until proven otherwise (meaning would arriving E.T.s be proved friendly or unfriendly)?

NICK: I think there are so many variables with questions about how first contact might unfold that it's almost impossible to ask. I mean, you imagine, don't you, a kind of spectrum of contact. At the low end of the spectrum is, as I mentioned earlier, picking up a distant radio signal from a civilization you'll never meet. At the extreme other end of the spectrum is a sort of full-on Independence Day, War of the Worlds alien invasion. But there's a whole bunch of stuff in between.

I mean, self-evidently, if we really face an alien invasion, people's immediate concerns would be exactly the same as if we were being attacked by the Russians or the Chinese.

JOHN: Well, this is the point I'd like to add to that that I'd like you to clarify. If they showed up in our space tomorrow — let's say they were able to cloak themselves and they were orbiting Earth — forget about the White House scenario, the Kremlin and all that other stuff. I mean that the aliens were there and They wanted to reach out to us. Would we immediately go on a defensive mode, do you think? Or would the military immediately want to go defensive, based on their invading us? Like, “How dare them come here!?”

Or would we actually let our scientists reach out first? What do you think the initial reaction would be by the governments and by the people themselves? What would the people expect out of our governments immediately if aliens showed up?

NICK: Well, I think that the first question, the very first question that the president would ask, if we're looking at this from a U.S. point of view, is fast-forwarding a little, she would turn to her Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and she would ask, “Is there a threat?”

And the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs would have to answer that question. Tthe answer would probably be, “I have no idea,” but we'd look at the scenario. I think it goes back to what I said about Lord Hill-Norton. The military mindset would be to assume that this is going to be hostile, and then be pleasantly surprised if it isn't rather than the other way around.

The military don't want to assume it's going to be benevolent and be caught with your pants down when it goes the other way. So yeah, government's first response would be, “Is there a threat here?” But I would like to think that obviously scientific advice would be sought from the very outset, and the president would probably turn to what? Director OSTP or something and say, “What can you bring to the table here? [ OSTP = Office of Science and Technology Policy.]

JOHN: OK. So they meet, all right? Our guess earlier on is that we're a marginal society, so more warlike. Without them doing anything offensive against us other than being in our airspace — and I assume the way you're talking, you bet the next president will be Hillary Clinton? I guess I'm trying to hammer home, if in fact we're reaching out [toward an alien discovery and arrival to Earth] —you've got (astrophysicist) Stephen Hawking warning how we should not do this (send radio signals into space) and we need to find Them first — why then hasn't the military prepared more for this (alien invasion war plan)? I mean, is it the standpoint within the military based on your working within government and the MOD that they don't think there's anything else out there? Because you've hinted before they do. And if that's the case, then probably the first question out of the president's mouth would be, “Are we in danger? Why hadn't we done more for the possibility of an alien invasion?”

NICK: I think we'd probably notch up a couple of points of DEFCON, and this (alien invasion war plan) is something which I think is almost too explosive to put on paper. Everyone now is writing in the post-FOIA world, and the governments know that some journalist is going to get a hold of this (alien invasion war plan). So I think this would literally be something that you wouldn't ever put down on paper.

Now, whether it's been thought about in the high echelons of government, I don't know. I rather suspect that if Hillary Clinton does become the next President of the United States, she more than other presidents might turn round and say, “Have we got anything on this? And if we haven't, shouldn't we have?” And I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with a war plan pretty much like the one that I drafted for Sony, just as a contingency.

JOHN: So you believe then that the world would unite. This would pull the world together and we'd focus—we'd stop focusing on destroying each other and look at is there a threat from above. And also militarily, let's say for example—and I know this is hypothetical—but let's say for example that their message to us without being threatening at all, would the military accept the fact that we should lay down our arms? That we should stop fighting each other and the first thing on our agenda if we want to survive as a civilization to stop fighting each other. How would that be perceived inside the military itself?

NICK: Well, I think it goes back to Ronald Reagan's speech where he said, “I occasionally like to think how quickly we would set aside our terrestrial differences if we suddenly faced a threat from beyond this world.” And that would certainly be the way one would like to think it would go.

If we faced an alien threat, yes, I am sure we would unite to face it. When that alien threat — if this is the scenario — were defeated, I suspect we would get back to our same old selves pretty soon afterwards, sad to say. I don't think a leopard can change its spots. I think, as I said earlier, that's who we humans are.

LINDA: But Nick, John, and Ray, from everything that I know from people that I have talked to that are legitimately in the military and intel, we have huge amounts of knowledge about some other non-humans that we're dealing with and have been interacting with Earth for millions of years (according to government insiders). That means that this isn't something that will be a shock to anyone. It is something where we appear to have allies who have been trying to help us be strengthened to face Something that might want us gone.

Therefore, today in October 2016, aren't we really on a landscape where behind the scenes the biggest black part of the U. S. government is dealing with non-humans?

NICK: Well, can I just respond to that before I hand it over? Just go back to one other point. I absolutely believe that on a societal level we can take it. And I know I keep harping back to the two Royal Society conferences (Linda's introduction references the January 2010 U. K. Royal Society conference in London), but I think they're exceptionally important. This very subject was discussed there, and particularly the religious aspect. I know Ray's done a lot of work on this. Victoria Alexander and Ted Peters also. And Ted was actually at the first of these( Royal Society) scientific conferences.

I would take issue with one point, and my apologies if I misread this, but I think, Ray, that there was almost an implication that atheists — you know, people with faith would be robust enough to accept this and incorporate it into their worldview as the paradigm changes, but that atheists somehow couldn't take it.

I think I would dispute that. I would say that — and by the way, I'm an atheist myself, just not something that often comes up in interviews. But I absolutely think that atheists would be able to incorporate extraterrestrial life easily into their paradigm simply through science, through the fact that the laws of physics, the laws of chemistry, seem to be constant in the universe. Therefore, the same processes that gave rise to life here on Earth, there's nothing to say that they shouldn't replicate billions of times out there in the cosmos.

So I don't think atheists would have any problem. I think we're all sufficiently robust these days in the 21st century to incorporate this new reality (of other life in the universe coming to Earth) into our worldviews.

LINDA: But Nick, I meant that we already have in black government projects technologies that we have back-engineered from extraterrestrial technology. If we're talking about extraterrestrials as biological in this universe, plus there are the issues of other-dimensionals, which may even be more powerful, currently we have signs in every direction that we (U. S. gov't.) has black technologies that are able to do something with powerful (offensive/defensive) counter-technologies.

NICK: Well, I haven't seen direct evidence of that, so I can't really comment on it. I suspect that those sorts of things sit within the U.S. government and not the U.K. government where my background was.

RAY: Linda, I think with the contact with The Writers that you and I have seen evidence that there's — at least we have seen a glimpse of a small segment of research into this interaction with non-human entities (NHEs). You have certainly had more direct contact with, for instance, with the Colonel who had contact with EBE-1.

I would like to think the governments would release information. I would like to think that. But I just don't know if they would. And again, I think now we get into the very selfish nature of humans. Like, I know something, and I don't want you to know it, so I'm not going to tip my hand.

Instead, I would love to think that our government would spill the beans. But then you wonder: if there is contact, or has been contact — and I believe there has — what sort of deals have been cut, if any? And are government agents willing to jeopardize their political careers by opening up those deals to the rest of the public? I just don't know.

JOHN: Ray, this is something that just bothers me, OK? And you brought it up, and I think it needs to be addressed by both you and Nick and Linda because you've been in this a lot longer than I have.

OK, we're implying that there's an advanced civilization out there that's more advanced than us and that somehow they would reach a treaty with us. Why would there be a necessity if we're militarily unable to keep up with them, as Nick implies? If we wouldn't stand a chance, why would there be any reason for a treaty? And if the aliens exist and come here, would they not be here to further mankind, not destroy it?

So I'd kind of like to hear from all three of you because we've got about 20 minutes left in the show. What would the reason be for Us and Them to have a treaty in the first place?

RAY: Let me start that because this popped into my mind this morning with the news coverage I'd seen of yesterday's Indigenous Peoples Day in replacement of Columbus Day.

What was the point of the United States making treaties with the various native nations? To keep enough peace long enough that we could conquer them. I mean, that would come to my mind as one of the major reasons for a treaty. Let's lull them into a false sense of security and push them onto a smaller and smaller and smaller reservation until we are there in force and we can do what we want with them. That's just speculation, but I think that's very much the way the United States government dealt with the Native American population.

LINDA: Nick and Ray, don't you think that part of the strategy on the western allies from World War II as they learned more was to wait out generations?

If it is true that Prime Minister Churchill said, “We will keep this quiet for 50 years,” because he felt that nobody could handle it. And now, we are at the middle of the 21st century and those that were alive and active at that time are passing on, and the milennial generation is the one that may be the single most conditioned for accepting other life in the universe or even other dimensional life.

NICK: Oh, we're absolutely ready for it. We can take it. I don't think there's any kind of credence that we should be paying now to ideas that governments hold this back because there would be panic in the streets. Opinion poll after opinion poll has shown that people not only think that we're not alone in the universe, but that we're being visited, that governments know more about it.

So if the president goes on TV — the archetypal, I suppose, disclosure fantasy — and says, “My fellow Americans, people of the world, we are not alone,” people won't panic or scream or shout or run down the street waving their arms. They'll say, “I told you so.” They'll turn to the person next to them and say, “See, I told you. I always knew that there was something like this. I thought that the government would have their hand in this.” So there wouldn't be any great surprise or panic.

RAY: Yeah. I agree with Nick. I think that's right. Evidently I didn't make myself completely clear. What I was talking about in terms of atheists having a tougher time dealing with it would be if it were in terms of the sort of systemic shock that one experiences when one has an enormous tragedy, personal tragedy, a child dies, a spouse suddenly dies.

I've dealt with enough friends who are atheists that the trauma is much greater because there's nothing foundational other than the material world for them to grab onto. And when that person they care about is jerked out of this material world and there's nothing left to hold onto, the trauma's much greater. That was the thought that was going through my mind there. I don't think the public would panic. I think if there were—if it was a question of very much an existential threat from them, that might be a different scenario, but again, just speculation.

JOHN: Well, here's my question. We can't get along with each other. Russia and us are at it now. China's in the middle of it.

Why are we going to get along with something from somewhere else? I mean, I think that's an important question to ask. If we can't coexist on planet Earth and work out our differences and make the planet habitable for all, why all of a sudden if we throw another wild card into this is that going to help us or is going to further our development. Anybody?

RAY: I don't know that it would. I don't know that it would further our development. I don't think we would get along any better. I think—I'll harken back to what Nick referenced earlier, Ronald Reagan's words, that if there were an extraterrestrial threat, it might cause us to band together at least for a while. But human nature being what it is, the one thing that all humans want is autonomy.

And if that autonomy is going to be taken away or seems to be threatened, if it's an outside force from outside this world, I believe we would band together at least temporarily, but then sooner or later each individual nation state is going to decide that what they want is better for them than what someone else wants, and they deserve certain sets of resources more than another person does. And we're back to square one. I don't know that other than a military threat it would be a unifying factor.

LINDA: Why do you think there is such a push to get humans to Mars and in habitation there?

NICK: Well, let me take that. I guess I would say the obvious answer is that at the moment the entire human race has all its eggs in one basket.

So if anything happens to our planet, whether it's nuclear war, climate change, comet or asteroid strike, that's it. So for the ultimate long term survival of the human race, we have to colonize Mars and indeed elsewhere in the solar system, and ultimately of course we have to go a good deal further than that and crack the secret of viable interstellar travel if the human race is to survive.

JOHN: Great show so far, guys. I don't want to interrupt, but we're due our last break. When we come back, we can pick up where we just left off.




JOHN: Nick, on your last comment about we've got all our eggs in one basket, what bothers me is that if we're reaching out to other planets or trying to go out into space, why haven't we come forward enough both spiritually and technology-wise to do that.

Why wouldn't we be doing mostly everything in our power to get our cards right on planet Earth and protect planet Earth from some of these threats over wasting billions if not trillions of dollars to go out some place where they've even admitted now that we'd probably have a hard time surviving anyway?

NICK: Well, because ultimately I think we'll make—if we spend billions on this new space race, ultimately we'll make trillions off it. I think the idea of saying humanity shouldn't go to the stars because we should sort out all our problems here first is a great idea. But—and I'm not being disrespectful—if you took that same attitude earlier in human history, it would be like saying, “Let's stay in our village and not spread out elsewhere. Let's not explore the new world. Let's just stay at home.”

And ultimately that doesn't produce some utopian society because I just don't think it does. You can throw enough time and money and resources and intent at it, I just don't think that's who we are. So ultimately I think we have to say, “Let's go beyond our village and see what's over the next mountain range. Let's sail over the sea and see if there's a new world out there. Let's sail across the void of space and reach for the stars.”

JOHN: And so then, I wanted to follow up with that question. Look how well it worked out when we did that for the rest of humanity overall. So I'd like to reverse for a second, Nick, if we were going—if there's another race out there trying to contact just like we are, how would we—how would they perceive us or how do you think we would react if we met them out there in space? Would we attack them—approach them the same way we did as we expanded out in our villages?

NICK: Well, I think again, it's unknowable. And one thing is, it's extremely unlikely that in the universe we're dealing with just one other civilization. Chances are there's a range of civilizations. Some way ahead of us. Others, not so much. Some benign. Others absolutely hostile. And indeed it's interesting that one solution to the Fermi Paradox, when people look out and say where are they, is the idea of a super predator civilization out there possibly biological, but maybe more than likely AI, so that's something that we might have to deal with. And that plays, of course, to the Stephen Hawking concerns about hey, we want to be careful out there, and we probably do. But I come back to the point, unless we want the human adventure to both begin and end on planet Earth, if we want to survive, if we want to go on and improve and diversify, we are going to have to leave here.

LINDA: And there is the backdrop, the backstoryof people in the military, like one I've been unfolding the past year of a U. S. Army Sergeant whose family, they were stopped by a huge 820-foot-diameter disk on a road in Wadley, Georgia.

See Wadley, Georgia, and Sgt. C. J. binary code reports:
• 05/12/2016 — Part 3: Sgt. C. J.'s Telepathic Binary Code Has 3 Layers
• 04/25/2016 — Part 2: More Binary Code from Sgt. C. J. — Surprise of Ancient Sumerian and Akkadian Words.
• 04/22/2016 — Part 1: More Binary Code from Sgt. C. J. with Warning
• 10/29/2015 — Update mp3 audio Part 1: Strange Symbols On Disc and Binary Code Download in Georgia

What has unfolded over the last year and a half up to just the past month of September 2016, has been more binary code download like Staff Sgt. Penniston at Bentwaters in December 1980. But this binary code has been both in English and in ancient Akkadian and Sumerian. And in the ancient Akkadian and Sumerian that we've been able to translate from the binary code that this Army Sergeant continues to receive and write down in a notebook, it uses words that add up to Nabu, who was the third most powerful figure in the Anunnaki after Enlil and Enki.

Could Nabu be returning to Earth? What if the return of an ancient intelligence that was not originally from Earth, but terraformed this planet and other places in this solar system and went away for reasons unknown. Could Nabu be returning and our government knows it? And that part of the almost panic to get to Mars has to do with ally help, which is what the Army Sergeant is also receiving in the binary code. That there are allies to humans, even though there are marauders that could come here and do damage.

RAY: Yeah, Linda, that's such a fascinating story. And along those lines, I've got a question for Nick.

As someone who's spent some time with Lord Hill-Norton, did you ever have the opportunity to discuss the paper that Gordon Creighton prepared with him called, “The UFO Concern Report on the Hill-Norton Initiative?”

NICK: Yes, I did. And now wasn't the Reverend Paul Inglesby involved in this as well?

RAY: Yes, absolutely, yes.

[ Editor's Note: Father Paul Eric Inglesby (1915-2010) was one of Britain's longest serving Christian UFO theorists. He founded a second pressure group, Christian UFO Concern, and became friends with Admiral Lord Hill-Norton, who shared Inglesby's naval background and his conviction that UFOs were a clear and present danger to humanity. During 1996, with public fascination with UFOs rising again, Inglesby produced a booklet, The UFO Concern Report, on behalf of Hill-Norton. This was privately published and circulated to a number of "top people" who had expressed an interest in UFOs. It was intended to warn them of what the authors believed were the occult origins of the subject. In the foreword, Inglesby said UFOs were "essentially a religious matter" rather than a military threat and added: "There is certainly a degree of psychical involvement in almost every [UFO] case. Quite often, such experiences are definitely antithetical to orthodox Christian belief."]

NICK: Yes. Now this plays in—I mean, we have kind of, I guess, in the last 20 minutes, half an hour of the show, there's probably another whole show here. This does tie in, I guess, with something I mentioned earlier about the British establishment's almost obsession with the occult, the paranormal, Crowley, black magic. And it ties in really also with, and you'll forgive me—obviously as an atheist, I don't know my way around the Bible probably as well as others, but I think it's Ephesians, isn't it, which talks about Satan being the Prince of the Power of the Air?

And that's very much a quote that underpins a lot of why people like Gordon Creighton, Paul Inglesby, and to some extent Lord Hill-Norton, did look at this idea of UFOs not necessarily as extraterrestrial, but possibly as demonic.

RAY: That's interesting. Yeah, I've always been fascinated that Lord Hill-Norton was involved in and took that kind of tact, and it's intriguing.

LINDA: What if the ancient so-called gods or some version of them is coming back and our governments know it?

NICK: Well, that could tie into I guess where we started right at the beginning of this show with the possibility of a truth too terrible to reveal.

RAY: I love that, Nick. That is such a great way to put that.

JOHN: Well, OK, so we're at that point now. We've only got a few minutes left. Nick, based on your MOD work, the military and everything, what would be that reason (too terrible to reveal)? And then, Ray, also you jump in from the other side, the spiritual side. What would possibly be that reason? Can you sum that up, Nick, from a perspective from the government side?

NICK: Pardon me, could you just clarify that? Do you mean you want me to speculate on what this truth too terrible to reveal could actually be?

JOHN: Yeah. Based on all the work that you've done over the years, what could be that truth? You know, everybody says we deserve disclosure, or we have a right to disclosure, but do we have a need to know disclosure?

So what would be the basis based on your government background on why the government wouldn't do it?

NICK: I can only speculate, but I can only think it would have to be something above and beyond just the revelation that we're alone because as I think all of us have discussed and agreed in the course of this show, we wouldn't have any problem incorporating that into our worldview in the 21st century. No, it would have to be something more than that. It would have to be—and I've noticed, for example, quite a few articles about this recently, the idea that almost literally something like the Matrix is true, that we're living in a computer simulation. Or that we are somebody else's science experiment. It would have to be something along those lines, I think.

JOHN: Do you think that's possible?

NICK: I can't rule it out.

JOHN: OK, Ray, what do you think?

RAY: You know, let me give you one of my favorite quotations that deals with this. H.P. Lovecraft, his opening lines to his story called, The Call of Cthulhu. He says, “The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.” If we were able to wrap our minds around all the possibilities, I think we may go stark-raving mad, but I don't know what the truth too horrible to reveal might be. Could it be that definitive evidence that we are the offspring of an extraterrestrial civilization?

I don't look at that even as a conservative Christian, I don’t look at that as a truth too horrible to reveal. I honestly don't know what it could be.

LINDA: If I can throw one thing in here from EBE-1 again and those communications. He said that we are in a universe in an infinite numbers of universes like an island that is surrounded by a cold, dark sea. And when the question was posed, “What is the cold, dark sea?” the answer was, “You don't want to know.”

RAY: That's good. Let me continue with another sentence from Lovecraft's Call of Cthulhu. "The sciences each straining in its own direction have hitherto harmed us little, but someday the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality and our frightful position therein that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."

Any of the scenarios that we could imagine could plunge us back into that new dark age. We could speculate endlessly, but I'm not sure what it would be. But I will say, in my opinion, the truth, no matter how shocking or startling, is far better and far safer than speculation.

JOHN: So in other words, you feel it's time that we all as a society stop speculating because we have to based on the fact that the secrets that are being held back from us.

RAY: I don't think we should stop speculating. But I mean, I think that's our human nature to search and seek out the truth. What I think it's time for is for the governments of the world to be held accountable and to really let us know what it is that they know.

JOHN: Nick, do you agree with that?

NICK: Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think we can speculate endlessly about the truth too terrible to reveal. Super predator, computer civilization—I mean, computer simulation, science experiment. The list goes on and on. Maybe it's something we don't have words for. We can't even conceptualize it. I don't know. But I would certainly agree that truth is better than speculation, absolutely.

JOHN: So do you think the time is coming? The hand's going to be forced in the near future, Nick?

NICK: I hope so.

JOHN: Other signs that says there are. I mean, based on all this information that's been thrown at us in the last 365 days and the possibility of Hillary Clinton becoming president and what she said her and Podesta would do, do you think we're closer than ever now?

NICK: Yes, I think so. It's almost like saying we're on a journey. So self-evidently we are further down on the road than we have ever been. And whether Hillary Clinton, if she is elected, has a role to play in this, I guess time will tell. I suppose—kind of one word of warning. We've been here before. I think if you dig out the back episodes of all manner of radio shows, TV shows, books, you'll find a lot of people saying there's a quickening, we're building up to something, there's a critical mass, we're about to push the door open. And it hasn't happened yet, so no guarantees.

JOHN: OK. Ray, what do you think?

RAY: I would agree with Nick. I've been at this longer than I like to remember. (Laughs) And there has always been that hope that just around the corner, it's almost there, we've just about got it, we think it's going to come, and it hasn't. So as much as I would like to see it, I don't know that it will happen. Linda, you've been there. You know that incredible disappointment when the carrot's dangled and nothing's left but the stick.

LINDA: I also understand it is a process. And that if everything that we've talked about in the past two hours on phenomenon radio are part of the truth, then we are dealing with something that is much more revolutionary than Earth finally getting on the same square that we're not alone in the universe.

We're talking about revolutionary insights into this universe being composed of other dimensions for real, and that interactions between those dimensions and the matter worlds may be at the key of every single thing that we have ever experienced on this planet in terms of spiritual warfare.

RAY: That's a great summation. That's a great summation. And I would agree with that.

JOHN: Well, we're getting close to ending the show. It's been, I think, a very fascinating show. Is there any last words you'd like to add, Nick, as we close out the show?

NICK: I think just to reiterate that for those people interested particularly in some of the questions about the societal consequences of first contact, first open contact, to look back and whether we're talking about the religious and spiritual aspects of this or political, scientific, technological, look back to those two Royal Society discussion meetings in 2010 because there's quite a lot of good material out there, and most of the papers, certainly the abstracts if not the full texts, has been published. And it's a great resource for people interested in following up some of the points that we've unpacked on this show.

JOHN: Ray?

RAY: You know, I think it's—this is a topic that encompasses so many areas. I mean, Nick just hit it there. The spiritual, the religious, the scientific, the political, the governmental, the military.

The implications would affect every area of life on this planet. And I—continue to dig. Continue to dig. I would second Nick's recommendation. Many of those papers from the Royal Society conferences are excellent, and people would gain a lot from reading those. We need to keep the discussion up, keep the dialogue going, and see what happens. In the immortal words of The Who, “Let's hope we don't get fooled again.”

JOHN: Agreed. And as we close the show, I have a feeling that I'd like to express. We still are in the rut, I call it, somewhat that we're questioning are we alone or not? And to me, we need to get past that and decide how we want to deal with ourselves and whatever other intelligence is out there to make us as better, not only, you know, as a society here on Earth but then as we go out.

As Nick says, leaves the village and goes out into space, how we can avoid the same mistakes we made here on Earth, and probably some of the same mistakes that have been made by other different groups of whatever you want to call them, you know, ETs, where we can all interact and get along together so we can further how we end up not just in the world but in the universe.

LINDA: Well, Ray and Nick, I began the intro to this PHENOMENON Radio with a quote from the U. K. Royal Society in London back in January 2010 in which the program overview stated, “Astronomers are now able to detect planets orbiting stars other than the sun where life may exist, and humans living this century could see the signatures of extraterrestrial life being detected. Should it turn out that we are not alone in the universe, it will fundamentally affect how humanity understands itself, and we need to be prepared for the consequences.”

Which from my point of view, every human being on this planet deserves to know everything their so-called government leaders know about other life in this universe as well as life that has been interacting with this planet for millennia.

NICK: It's a great quote, yeah, absolutely.

RAY: That is a great summation. It's a great opening, and it's a great summation. We do deserve to know, if we can just convince our governments of that as well.

JOHN: Well, on that note, I want to thank you both for coming on. It was a great show.

LINDA: Thanks everyone!

RAY: You're very welcome, John and Linda. Nick, it was good to be on with you.

NICK: Yes, likewise. I think we explored some interesting topics and I hope this generates a lot of discussion and debate amongst the listeners.

JOHN: Thanks again, everyone.

Return to Part 1.


Also see:

• 05/28/2016 — UAPs and Alien “Gods" with Tom Delonge.

• 05/27/2016 — Alien Agendas Include Animal Mutilations and Hybrids.

• 04/01/2015 — Update April 1, 2015 - U. K. MoD Delays Once Again Release of 18 Classified UFO Files Admittedly Withheld in FOIA Correspondence with Retired USAF Tech Sgt. John Burroughs.

• 03/13/2015 — Breaking News — This Is Why John Burroughs's Medical Records from RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge 1979-1982 Are “Classified,” According to Christopher C. Green M.D., Ph.D., FAAFS, Wayne State School of Medicine.

• 02/27/2015 — Part 2: Implications of John Burroughs's Full V. A. Medical Coverage from Injury Caused by Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Radiation at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge, Dec. 1980.

• 02/27/2015 — Part 1: Implications of John Burroughs's Full V. A. Medical Coverage from Injury Caused by Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Radiation at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge, Dec. 1980.

• 02/23/2015 — Update with Press Release - John Burroughs Has Received Full V. A. Medical Coverage Due to Injury Caused by Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Radiation at RAF Bentwaters/Woodbridge in December 1980.

• 10/30/2014 — Updated: USAF Tech Sgt. (Ret.) John Burroughs Has Forced U. K. Ministry of Defence to Admit It Withheld At Least 18 Classified UFO Files


Earthfiles would appreciate hearing from others who have had firsthand encounters with an alien presence on Earth. All requests for anonymity are honored. Please email: [email protected]

More Information:

Please see Linda Moulton Howe's books and DVDs about her investigations of the UFO, E. T., human abductions, animal mutilations and government cover-ups in the Earthfiles Shop.

For further information about unidentified aerial phenomena and telepathic non-humans interacting on Earth, please see the Earthfiles Archive, of which a few are listed below from the nearly 2,500 in-depth reports organized in chronological order from 1999 to 2016 ongoing.

• 09/30/2016 — High Strangeness Encounter in Cedar Rapids, Iowa
• 09/08/2016 — Bizarre, Mysterious Death of Appaloosa Mare in Queensland, Australia
• 08/26/2016 — Part 1: Glowing Yellow UFO Linked to One of Strangest Airliner Crashes in American History
• 08/26/2016 — Part 2: Some FBI Docs About Unidentified Light, But Much Still Sealed 74 Years Later
• 05/28/2016 — UAPs and Alien “Gods”
• 05/27/2016 — Alien Agendas Include Animal Mutilations and Hybrids
• 01/31/2013 — Morphogenetic Fields, Telepathy and Science Set Free
• 12/16/2012 — Part 3: Huge Aerial Triangle and Non-Human Entities in Army's Fort Knox, KY
• 10/06/2012 — Part 1: Earthfiles Viewer Letters About “Angelic Light” Encounters
• 09/06/2011 — Part 1: New Zealand Abductee Describes Alien Pyramids and Symbols, Time Travel and Sound/Color Communication
• 08/02/2011 — Part 1: New Zealand Abductee Talks About Pyramids, Time Travel and Alien Communication
• 07/07/2011 — Earthfiles Viewer Letters About Oltissis
• 12/12/2010 — High Strangeness Reports from Earthfiles Viewers
• 11/02/2010 — Part 2 - Grandson of AEC Scientist Encounters Blond Entities
• 05/26/2010 — Green Beam and White-Haired Non-Humans
• 05/26/2009 — Part 9: High Strangeness Files about EBENs
• 05/13/2009 — Part 8: High Strangeness Files about EBENs
• 06/13/2008 — Part 2: Insights from An Experiencer with Greys and Blond Humanoids
• 01/05/2008 — Part 14: In League With A UFO
• 05/08/2006 — Another Extraordinary EBE Telepathic Upload/Download
• 03/02/2006 — Missing Time Abduction Before Birth
• 01/27/2006 — Part 2: Navy Physicist and USAF Geophysicist Discuss UFOs and ETs
• 12/02/2005 — Abduction by Grey ETs in Huge, Black Triangle
• 08/19/2005 — Strange Aerial Lights, Military Knowledge and Hooded "Insects"
• 07/04/2005 — Part 1: Eyewitness Description of Cattle Mutilated by Reptoids


"UFOs: Caught in a Web of Deception," PDF available:

Majestic-12 Documents:

NATO Operation Mainbrace, September 1952:

PresidentialUFOs by Grant Cameron:

Other Dimensions:

Encounters of the 3rd Kind:


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